Subverting the subversion of the 4B Movement, its parallels to the Chinese Cultural Revolution's 4 Olds, and spicy free advice the NYT's "Unspoken Grief of Never Becoming a Grandparent"
One thing that struck me in the above piece was the comment: "...get an education in education" so you can teach and/or be around kids. Unless you're getting a degree from someplace like Hillsdale, you will likely just be educated in the prevailing, subversive anti-family ideology. My wife and I are childless by choice. She's a child of an acrimonious divorce, and my parents never said a word one way or the other about children. I never felt like I needed children to be fulfilled, and frankly never felt mature enough to take on the task. My regret now, at 70, is precisely that I could have raised a conservative culture warrior if I had known then what I know now. What I do know now is that we need a much more explicit pro-family policy by our government and in our public discourse. Inculcate that children are a virtue, and have economic policies in place that encourage it.
I'll be even more honest. The regret I mentioned above isn't difficult to bear. I never held with the belief that you should have children so they can take care of you when you are older. We are happy with our lives together, even with the challenges of advancing age. We married in 1981. Even then, at age 26, I knew that having children would involve me in terrible battles over their education/indoctrination. I'm ashamed to admit that I did not have the stomach for it, nor did we have the means to assure a quality private education. In retrospect, that's probably a feeble excuse, but I'm stickin' with it.
It's quite clear from the photo, Elijah Birk is swimming in an estrogen stew. Soft features, moobs (man boobs) and a kitchen full of processed seed oils are evident. One can almost smell the Glade plug-ins, scented detergents and fabric softeners.
I am 50 I have three siblings in their 40s. None of us have children. Its sad. At its root it’s a reaction to the fact that our parents DID view us as a vanity item and didn’t really love us. They really hated being parents and they let us know. Looking back I don’t think I would have disliked parenthood like them but I certainly thought I would and I did not want to subject a child to that. My siblings feel the same way. I wish things were different.
Many of us would benefit from therapeutically re-experiencing that our parents didn't really love us. That's something none of us will ever "get over" with cognitive therapies because those parts of our brains are not where the wounds are, especially our ages 0-to-3 experiences.
I agree that the shaving heads and saying they won't have sex thing is idiotic, performative, and hopefully a brief stunt that these young women will grow out of. But again... some percentage of people just don't want kids. I am fifty and I never wanted children. It's been a long time since men were raised to be husbands and fathers, and I don't put all the blame on them either. Ongoing war between the genders will never result in a happy society, or in well-adjusted children.
I also used to feel that the way parents raised their children would determine if they had grandkids or not. However the woke cult is a lot more powerful than you would imagine. My wife and I have 5 kids. Homeschooled them. Raised them in the church. The 2 youngest were in competitive Bible Quizzing and made it to the National level. My #2 daughter graduated from home-school and went to a conservative Bible College in a small town to be a nurse. While there she met a boy who was a pastor's son who was also home-schooled and had 5 siblings. They married. So far so good - 2 good decent well-brought up kids with a VERY SOLID Christian upbringing from large families. 2 years after marriage and living in the world their discourse started to change, they started talking about the gays and trannies and how oppressed they were, mentioned how awful global warming was, etc, etc. Anyway, 5 years after their wedding, for his 30th birthday, this f'ing idiot gets a vasectomy. They don't attend church and they're both on anti-depressants. Two of my other kids have also bought in to the woke cult and are on anti-depressants too. Like WTF?! Pardon my unChristian language but this is NOT how they were brought up. One of them hates God and also goes on and on about climate change. Both of these ones are looking for jobs, but refuse to work for oil and gas companies, which is kind of hilarious because we live in an oil & gas dominant city.
We do have 2 other children who want kids and will have them (the youngest is marrying a pastor and she currently works in childcare already).
Anyway, you can raise your kids in a super-Christian home, teach them how to think critically and not believe the MSM, watch Christian movies & music, spend lots of time together (I've sacrificed a lot of money & career to spend time with them when younger, which I don't regret), but the World creeps in. It's so incredibly disappointing to my wife and I.
Sorry for how things turned out for you. But being raised Christian does not inoculate you from worldly mind viruses. In these days of information overload and social contagions it is very important to teach your children to evaluate in a systematic way ALL points of view, question dogma and be critical in their thinking. My Christian upbringing did not AT ALL encourage that. It was my contrary personality and science training that saved me I think. I love God, but I know many fellow Christian’s dislike ego I enjoy reading and talking in my curiosity to understand people and find truth.
It's true that being raised with a Christian background doesn't automatically shield one from the influences of the world. In today's fast-paced, information-saturated environment, teaching children to think critically and question all perspectives is crucial. It's interesting how your upbringing didn't necessarily emphasize that kind of critical thinking, but your individuality and scientific training played a significant role in shaping your perspective.
We are all vulnerable to being manipulated. No one is immune. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. I hope and pray for people to think for themselves. And I hope your children can come back to the roots, the foundation you provided for them as a parent. Churches can sometimes scare me. I have seen darkness in many places, even churches.
My sister and I were raised in a small British town by old-fashioned parents. I was sent to a very traditional boarding school as well. Church every week and holidays with extended family: cousins, grandparents and so on. I'm in a decent job, attend church and loathe the Left with a passion. The main reason is that they corrupted my sister who now no longers speaks to us. Worried about the blacks, believes cancer is caused by bad thoughts, her brain is scrambled. You can only do thr best you can. Good luck.
Well Yuri, the only solace I take (regularly) is that those that aren’t reproducing won’t be passing on the likely transmissible mind virus to another generation. Mostly based gigachads and based tradwives and hard working (legal) immigrants will be repopulating. Let’s hope it’s enough to avoid S. Korea’s present state of affairs.
Exactly. But I can't help but be sympathetic since the evil narrative they were told (from a young age) was intentended to discourage them from procreating. It was an attack on America, and apparently, South Korea. Some of these women probably believe they are making the right
choice for a better world. They did not deserve to be lied to.
Fair enough, I’m not entirely pessimistic. Gens Z and Alpha have already surprised me with some of their rejection of millennial self-loathing politics. Obviously there was a massive shift in the electorate that I didn’t even see coming. These aren’t the worst of times.
I agree. If young men continue to return to conservative values, I believe the women will eventually follow. It's just too early to pick up the trend statistically on a societal level. Psyops aside, human nature is human nature and hopefully someday we will look back on these years with horror and humor.
My wife theorized that living in cities is too distracting. There are clubs, restaurants, cafes to try and the like. You end up getting sucked into soft hedonism and consumerism too easily and get addicted to it.
Even in the days of Rome, cities could not sustain a reproductive rate to keep the population up - they had to rely on people moving in from the sticks. This is true of modern America also. Cities are great for art, science, and learning, but their spiritual toxicity eats away the human soul. This was Ted Czyzynski's essential point - the modern, urbanized "machine" will destroy us, or we will destroy it...
Plato said in the Republic that cities tend to be non sustaining. That once a town gets over a certain amount of people it tends to wither away. Unless it can import people from surrounding areas, states, or countries. I can't remember his exact words but it was an interesting passage.
I asked exactly that question over at Owen Cass's place. I think it is yet another manifestation of America is fine but the United States isn't. People need to stop conflating the two. Let the cities die. Maybe 5 generations from now we can think about recolonization but why.
Not sure the 4B movement has really had much of an effect on South Korean society. All of the trends in Korea such as the low birth rate, high housing costs, and an over qualified society (when I first arrived to live in South Korea over 90% of high school graduates attended post secondary education) were happening before 4B.
When Koreans get married the groom is expected to pay for housing. The bride is expected to pay for the furniture. Many young Koreans struggle to find a good job in their 20s and it is why many seek government jobs and work with big companies like Samsung. As a result, one needs generational wealth to get started after marriage.
Korean governments, especially at the local and regional level, have tried to reverse the birth rate through financial incentives for 20 years. It has failed to work. Based on discussions with my university students in 2017 to 2019 it will take a big cultural shift and mind shift to change the trend.
Fun fact: among my South Korean friends almost all are married and most have two to three children. Guess the cat ladies of Korea hate me..ha..ha.
Man this is breaking my heart. I see how much my parents live for their five grandchildren, how at peace they are. How happy.
Two things: first one just personal. Maybe a warning. I’m an old dad - I have three sons, but the oldest was born when I was 42. It DOES bother me, a lot, that I’m going to have few if any healthy years with grandchildren. Be warned if you’re delaying starting a family.
Second: I’m going to be a spoilsport here. Stop making fun of these kids. It doesn’t matter if they’re obnoxious, x-pilled (whatever, I don’t know the lingo), selfish, doesn’t matter. These aren’t actually barriers to having families. A few people - very few, I can’t think of any I know personally - can grow old alone and childless and be happy about it. Most will be devastated, like the non-grandparents here. It sucks and it isn’t helped by being smug dicks about it.
I disagree. Mock them mercilessly. Letting morons know that they are morons is the kindest thing you can do for them, because some may have enough relict latent reasoning ability to figure out that they are screwing up and in need of a course correction.
I’m not 4b and I voted for the new establishment so I don’t want to do this, but I get it. What bothers me about your post is there are children all over this planet who would give anything to have a grandparent and these people are limiting their love to DNA only. There are so many other ways to be a grandparent. As far as demanding the viable girls spread their legs and breed for the state, I take it that you haven’t spent a lot of time in the real world lately. Because I’m in the dating world and I don’t meet men that are interested in marriage or anywhere near ready to treat a woman like a person. The males I meet are lined up with old-fashioned values that don’t even match the current economy let alone the current culture. If they would marry, they are expecting you to let go of your rights in the process and they don’t want to treat you like a human being. If they wouldn’t marry, then you can get the connotation. Either way there isn’t some beautiful loving relationship on offer from most of these guys that would be a wonderful place for a child to grow up. I’m getting kind of sick of seeing all the rhetoric toward women, when men carry a machine around (their phones) giving them unlimited access to dating apps, social media, pages and only fans. Just a question - how come you’re not focusing on the things that would make a marriage good for both parties so that there’s a reason for women to want to breed? Male behavior regarding sex and cheating and hate are males own internal cock-blocker. Instead of taking a **** on women for rejecting misogyny maybe you could focus on the guys.
Generally speaking, the group that culls themselves from the gene pool, may be doing humanity a favor. Rage on wenches!
One thing that struck me in the above piece was the comment: "...get an education in education" so you can teach and/or be around kids. Unless you're getting a degree from someplace like Hillsdale, you will likely just be educated in the prevailing, subversive anti-family ideology. My wife and I are childless by choice. She's a child of an acrimonious divorce, and my parents never said a word one way or the other about children. I never felt like I needed children to be fulfilled, and frankly never felt mature enough to take on the task. My regret now, at 70, is precisely that I could have raised a conservative culture warrior if I had known then what I know now. What I do know now is that we need a much more explicit pro-family policy by our government and in our public discourse. Inculcate that children are a virtue, and have economic policies in place that encourage it.
Thank you for sharing your story.
I'll be even more honest. The regret I mentioned above isn't difficult to bear. I never held with the belief that you should have children so they can take care of you when you are older. We are happy with our lives together, even with the challenges of advancing age. We married in 1981. Even then, at age 26, I knew that having children would involve me in terrible battles over their education/indoctrination. I'm ashamed to admit that I did not have the stomach for it, nor did we have the means to assure a quality private education. In retrospect, that's probably a feeble excuse, but I'm stickin' with it.
I’ll try to cover the spread for ya.
Thank you for this honesty.
Children are a gift from God. Grandchildren are a life-giving gift from God and a comfort in the years we prepare for Heaven. https://poetslife.substack.com/p/young-americans-court-fall-in-love
Woke women not breeding and making it easier for men to avoid them? I approve!
It's quite clear from the photo, Elijah Birk is swimming in an estrogen stew. Soft features, moobs (man boobs) and a kitchen full of processed seed oils are evident. One can almost smell the Glade plug-ins, scented detergents and fabric softeners.
And also a cat.
Those bald gals kinda look like Alejandro "Call Me Al" Mayorkas
I am 50 I have three siblings in their 40s. None of us have children. Its sad. At its root it’s a reaction to the fact that our parents DID view us as a vanity item and didn’t really love us. They really hated being parents and they let us know. Looking back I don’t think I would have disliked parenthood like them but I certainly thought I would and I did not want to subject a child to that. My siblings feel the same way. I wish things were different.
Thank you for being honest.
Many of us would benefit from therapeutically re-experiencing that our parents didn't really love us. That's something none of us will ever "get over" with cognitive therapies because those parts of our brains are not where the wounds are, especially our ages 0-to-3 experiences.
I agree that the shaving heads and saying they won't have sex thing is idiotic, performative, and hopefully a brief stunt that these young women will grow out of. But again... some percentage of people just don't want kids. I am fifty and I never wanted children. It's been a long time since men were raised to be husbands and fathers, and I don't put all the blame on them either. Ongoing war between the genders will never result in a happy society, or in well-adjusted children.
Well said. Peace is good for society and well-adjusted children.
I also used to feel that the way parents raised their children would determine if they had grandkids or not. However the woke cult is a lot more powerful than you would imagine. My wife and I have 5 kids. Homeschooled them. Raised them in the church. The 2 youngest were in competitive Bible Quizzing and made it to the National level. My #2 daughter graduated from home-school and went to a conservative Bible College in a small town to be a nurse. While there she met a boy who was a pastor's son who was also home-schooled and had 5 siblings. They married. So far so good - 2 good decent well-brought up kids with a VERY SOLID Christian upbringing from large families. 2 years after marriage and living in the world their discourse started to change, they started talking about the gays and trannies and how oppressed they were, mentioned how awful global warming was, etc, etc. Anyway, 5 years after their wedding, for his 30th birthday, this f'ing idiot gets a vasectomy. They don't attend church and they're both on anti-depressants. Two of my other kids have also bought in to the woke cult and are on anti-depressants too. Like WTF?! Pardon my unChristian language but this is NOT how they were brought up. One of them hates God and also goes on and on about climate change. Both of these ones are looking for jobs, but refuse to work for oil and gas companies, which is kind of hilarious because we live in an oil & gas dominant city.
We do have 2 other children who want kids and will have them (the youngest is marrying a pastor and she currently works in childcare already).
Anyway, you can raise your kids in a super-Christian home, teach them how to think critically and not believe the MSM, watch Christian movies & music, spend lots of time together (I've sacrificed a lot of money & career to spend time with them when younger, which I don't regret), but the World creeps in. It's so incredibly disappointing to my wife and I.
Sorry for how things turned out for you. But being raised Christian does not inoculate you from worldly mind viruses. In these days of information overload and social contagions it is very important to teach your children to evaluate in a systematic way ALL points of view, question dogma and be critical in their thinking. My Christian upbringing did not AT ALL encourage that. It was my contrary personality and science training that saved me I think. I love God, but I know many fellow Christian’s dislike ego I enjoy reading and talking in my curiosity to understand people and find truth.
It's true that being raised with a Christian background doesn't automatically shield one from the influences of the world. In today's fast-paced, information-saturated environment, teaching children to think critically and question all perspectives is crucial. It's interesting how your upbringing didn't necessarily emphasize that kind of critical thinking, but your individuality and scientific training played a significant role in shaping your perspective.
We are all vulnerable to being manipulated. No one is immune. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate it. I hope and pray for people to think for themselves. And I hope your children can come back to the roots, the foundation you provided for them as a parent. Churches can sometimes scare me. I have seen darkness in many places, even churches.
My sister and I were raised in a small British town by old-fashioned parents. I was sent to a very traditional boarding school as well. Church every week and holidays with extended family: cousins, grandparents and so on. I'm in a decent job, attend church and loathe the Left with a passion. The main reason is that they corrupted my sister who now no longers speaks to us. Worried about the blacks, believes cancer is caused by bad thoughts, her brain is scrambled. You can only do thr best you can. Good luck.
Well Yuri, the only solace I take (regularly) is that those that aren’t reproducing won’t be passing on the likely transmissible mind virus to another generation. Mostly based gigachads and based tradwives and hard working (legal) immigrants will be repopulating. Let’s hope it’s enough to avoid S. Korea’s present state of affairs.
Exactly. But I can't help but be sympathetic since the evil narrative they were told (from a young age) was intentended to discourage them from procreating. It was an attack on America, and apparently, South Korea. Some of these women probably believe they are making the right
choice for a better world. They did not deserve to be lied to.
Fair enough, I’m not entirely pessimistic. Gens Z and Alpha have already surprised me with some of their rejection of millennial self-loathing politics. Obviously there was a massive shift in the electorate that I didn’t even see coming. These aren’t the worst of times.
Agree
I agree. If young men continue to return to conservative values, I believe the women will eventually follow. It's just too early to pick up the trend statistically on a societal level. Psyops aside, human nature is human nature and hopefully someday we will look back on these years with horror and humor.
What's wrong with urbanites? We're having kids out here in the sticks.
My wife theorized that living in cities is too distracting. There are clubs, restaurants, cafes to try and the like. You end up getting sucked into soft hedonism and consumerism too easily and get addicted to it.
Even in the days of Rome, cities could not sustain a reproductive rate to keep the population up - they had to rely on people moving in from the sticks. This is true of modern America also. Cities are great for art, science, and learning, but their spiritual toxicity eats away the human soul. This was Ted Czyzynski's essential point - the modern, urbanized "machine" will destroy us, or we will destroy it...
But they aren’t happy and if they take a minute to think about it, they know they are not happy
I agree. I think both statements are true
Plato said in the Republic that cities tend to be non sustaining. That once a town gets over a certain amount of people it tends to wither away. Unless it can import people from surrounding areas, states, or countries. I can't remember his exact words but it was an interesting passage.
I asked exactly that question over at Owen Cass's place. I think it is yet another manifestation of America is fine but the United States isn't. People need to stop conflating the two. Let the cities die. Maybe 5 generations from now we can think about recolonization but why.
Apparently they are not having sex either?
Not sure the 4B movement has really had much of an effect on South Korean society. All of the trends in Korea such as the low birth rate, high housing costs, and an over qualified society (when I first arrived to live in South Korea over 90% of high school graduates attended post secondary education) were happening before 4B.
When Koreans get married the groom is expected to pay for housing. The bride is expected to pay for the furniture. Many young Koreans struggle to find a good job in their 20s and it is why many seek government jobs and work with big companies like Samsung. As a result, one needs generational wealth to get started after marriage.
Korean governments, especially at the local and regional level, have tried to reverse the birth rate through financial incentives for 20 years. It has failed to work. Based on discussions with my university students in 2017 to 2019 it will take a big cultural shift and mind shift to change the trend.
Fun fact: among my South Korean friends almost all are married and most have two to three children. Guess the cat ladies of Korea hate me..ha..ha.
Man this is breaking my heart. I see how much my parents live for their five grandchildren, how at peace they are. How happy.
Two things: first one just personal. Maybe a warning. I’m an old dad - I have three sons, but the oldest was born when I was 42. It DOES bother me, a lot, that I’m going to have few if any healthy years with grandchildren. Be warned if you’re delaying starting a family.
Second: I’m going to be a spoilsport here. Stop making fun of these kids. It doesn’t matter if they’re obnoxious, x-pilled (whatever, I don’t know the lingo), selfish, doesn’t matter. These aren’t actually barriers to having families. A few people - very few, I can’t think of any I know personally - can grow old alone and childless and be happy about it. Most will be devastated, like the non-grandparents here. It sucks and it isn’t helped by being smug dicks about it.
I disagree. Mock them mercilessly. Letting morons know that they are morons is the kindest thing you can do for them, because some may have enough relict latent reasoning ability to figure out that they are screwing up and in need of a course correction.
Honestly, 4B sounds like recycled MGTOW.
These ideas are loci of bitterness and resentment and anti-human feeling.
https://jmpolemic.substack.com/p/the-philosophy-of-bitterness?r=1neg52
I’m not 4b and I voted for the new establishment so I don’t want to do this, but I get it. What bothers me about your post is there are children all over this planet who would give anything to have a grandparent and these people are limiting their love to DNA only. There are so many other ways to be a grandparent. As far as demanding the viable girls spread their legs and breed for the state, I take it that you haven’t spent a lot of time in the real world lately. Because I’m in the dating world and I don’t meet men that are interested in marriage or anywhere near ready to treat a woman like a person. The males I meet are lined up with old-fashioned values that don’t even match the current economy let alone the current culture. If they would marry, they are expecting you to let go of your rights in the process and they don’t want to treat you like a human being. If they wouldn’t marry, then you can get the connotation. Either way there isn’t some beautiful loving relationship on offer from most of these guys that would be a wonderful place for a child to grow up. I’m getting kind of sick of seeing all the rhetoric toward women, when men carry a machine around (their phones) giving them unlimited access to dating apps, social media, pages and only fans. Just a question - how come you’re not focusing on the things that would make a marriage good for both parties so that there’s a reason for women to want to breed? Male behavior regarding sex and cheating and hate are males own internal cock-blocker. Instead of taking a **** on women for rejecting misogyny maybe you could focus on the guys.
Children need engaged fathers. I think you make a good point.
Unfortunately many take advantage of having an infinite supply of gametes per each...you know what...while women only have one per month.
Yep, it’s the difference between men and males.