It is possible to idealize earlier waves of immigration too much. The Irish, Jews, Chinese and Italians were certainly discriminated against and tended to live in their own ghettos. The Scandinavians not so much because they tend to move to sparsely populated in the Upper Midwest. The Germans were already here in substantial numbers even in colonial times so new immigrants had a similar community to ease assimilation. The speed and manner of assimilation varied. The Irish tended to assimilate via public employment in the military, police, urban political machines but maintained strong ties with the old country to the point of supporting Irish struggles against England. Even in my time there were IRA bars what would financially support (cough, cough) Noraid. The Italians and Jews had their own ghettos in East Coast urban areas. They also had organized crime. How the Jews got lumped into the Mafia is probably worth a book but they did. Again, discrimination persisted into my times and then in the case of the Jews came roaring back in the last couple of years. Not so much connection to the old country in these cases. Chinese, of the frontier days, were widely dispersed across the West mainly in mining and railroad building. The city of John Day, OR (current population about 1700) once boasted the largest US population of Chinese outside San Francisco and the first Asian car dealer in the country. They are all gone now. Other places like Tombstone and Pendleton had substantial Chinese populations too. For some reason, they seemed to retreat to the urban areas later. But until recently, they were concentrated in Chinatowns. Varying degrees of intermarriage with existing populations though it is not clear whether the intermarriage or the lessening of discrimination came first but more begat more. Seeing that with Hispanics today.
Jews and Chinese were very into education as a way to assimilate. Irish and Italians not so much.
One key difference that earlier waves were discriminated against while the current wave is discriminated for.
another key difference is that all previous groups weren't immediately offered government welfare programs. None of the those Irish immigrants were put up in $300/night NYC hotels.
Another facet of this 'newer' immigration is that in the first couple of decades in the 20th century, parents & those from the old country WANTED and ENCOURAGED their children to learn how to speak English properly in order to 'BE an American'. That was the whole reason they came here.
More recent immigrants resist that path forward. They proudly - sometimes loudly, sometimes obnoxiously - insist that it's not enough to continue their traditional ways but that we Americans MUST engage in their culture & language to the detriment of our own.
They don't want to 'BE an American' - they want Americans to embrace THEIR ways.
The culture & language will evolve on its own, naturally, and in its own time, thereby creating the melting pot.
The German farming community in Central Texas is an excellent example. Up until WWII they were still speaking German, still had their own schools, taught in German, and churches preached in German.
An old lady told my Grandfather that he and my Father were going to Hell for speaking English to each other.
Then WWII came along and suddenly it was extremely unfashionable to speak German. Everything quickly switched over to English -- although my grandparents still said grace at teh dinner table in German.
As a boomer and a second-generation American I didn’t see many Jews getting involved with the Mafia. Sure, some did but the vast majority went on to successful white-collar and other careers largely through success in education. In fact, many Italian Americans I knew were extremely resentful of the Jews who they saw as an equivalent immigrant group but one who became “more successful” in WASP America than themselves. But the point is that everybody learned English, got educated to the best standard they could and considered themselves Americans.
It is important we outlaw anchor babies. I think we should also consider stripping citizenship from naturalized citizens when they commit serious crimes or willfully and repeatedly violate their oaths as the Soros family has.
This is "nice" but I have a friend who was born and lived in Switzerland 64 years and he is "Italian". Also doesn't sound very fair or at least then don't pay any tax...
As a naturalized AMERICAN citizen in the early 1960s, George Soros SWORE to "uphold the United States Constitution." In reality, Soros has IGNORED his oath and funded every Communist front group within the USA - with ONE goal in mind: The complete destruction of OUR Republic and flip it into a SOCIALIST Democracy.
Hopefully our New Attorney General - Pam Bondi - will at some point strip that asshole of his US citizenship and DEPORT that despicable bastard to N. Korea.
An important description of different types of assimilation in the US context that I hadn't considered before. Woke assimilation captures AWFLS and unfortunately second-third generation Americans who take their privileges and their grandparents/parents struggles for granted. The Woke have distorted the English language to create their own cultural/cultish lexicon to facilitate indoctrination and assimilation. I wonder what will happen to the rate of Woke assimilation/de-assimilation after Trump's inauguration.
I hope Learner Tien isn’t woke, rooting for him big time.
A pretty wild, true assimilation story from a family I know. The children grew up into adulthood, one of the grown children was reading a popular book about WW2, I don’t remember if it was Schindler’s List or some similar bestseller, and a picture of one of the saved people looked familiar… and that’s how this man learned, as an adult, that his father was a Jewish refugee. The kids hadn’t even known they were Jewish! That’s taking assimilation a little too far…
One thing I wish were more widespread, even among assimilated immigrants like me: gratitude to the point of keeping our mouths shut about immigration etc. like, be so so grateful you’re here, understand it’s a gift and a privilege, now STFU about the immigration debate and let the Americans who’ve been here for generations debate about it… just my two cents
You have a lot to add from experience. Keeping mouths shut was a measure of shame for immigrants trying so hard to melt into the pot that they obliterated their own history. That doesn’t help future generations figure out their own story.
Trump built the wall in the wrong place. It needs to be on the eastern border of Californistan. As a Texan, I would prefer more Mexicanos to more Californians. ^_^
If they don’t like American culture, then they should return to their original countries. Absolutely !
Came to the US 20 years ago, became a citizen, and knew English before I came. To my surprise there are German, Italian, and lots of South-American pockets, where no English is spoken at all. There is a large pocket of Italians in Belgium that refuse to integrate. I think it might be better for those to get back 'home' because they do not belong in the country. It should not be allowed to make ghettos of a certain ethnicity, only Native Americans can do that as they were the original inhabitants, and I would encourage them, to learn their native languages again and re-enter their own culture.
For all the rest of the immigrants, I think it should be required to speak English that other English speakers can understand ! (after 20 years I still have an accent, so be it, but everyone understands me).
The whole notion of a 'hyphenated' citizen has destroyed the original meaning of being a citizen or a member of a tribe. It is why I tend to call myself more a Quebecois these days on account of the fact that I'm more French than anything else and to most a Canadian is an Anglo-Saxon of Canada (an honourable and magnificent thing to be). But I"m somehow different.
That said, in America it should be American and that is all. By brining in all this other baggage they have effectively destroyed what it means now to be a citizen.
Language is power, and language binds a tribe together by warping it the tribe/clan has been warped. This is why the people need to regain control of their language, just as they must in France, in Germany, Japan and so on. The globalists have completely subverted it in recent years.
Got to take the profit motive out of being woke. Affimative action and anti discrimination law should be limited to the descendants of those conquered or forcibly brought here.
Those who came here voluntarily despite the racism of the time knew what they were getting into and came anyway because it was a better deal than what they had at home.
Some gentle antitrust measures and making it easier to go into business for yourself would accomplish what affirmative action is supposed to accomplish. Every workplace is hostile to somebody.
I will be writing on these things when I get to Rule 13.
If there is a 'need' for immigration, that is showing a structural weakness that needs to be addressed. Immigration is treating the symptom, not the disease. If we need more tech workers, it is because we need more tech education. Allowing immigration to treat that symptom masks the real problem, allowing it to get worse.
There is also the fact that racial differences are inherently a negative in a nation, as people unconsciously associate them with the 'other' and social trust levels fall.
"Levels of social trust, averaged across a country, predict national economic growth as powerfully as financial and physical capital, and more powerfully than skill levels – over which every government in the world worries about incessantly. It is also associated with many other non-economic outcomes, such as life satisfaction (positively) and suicide (negatively). In short, it’s not much fun living in a place where you don’t think most other people can be trusted. Low trust implies a society where you have to keep an eye over your shoulder; where deals need lawyers instead of hand-shakes; where you don’t see the point of paying your tax or recycling your rubbish (since you doubt your neighbour will do so); and where you employ your cousin or your brother-in-law to work for you rather than a stranger who would probably be much better at the job."
"But a massive new study, based on detailed interviews of nearly 30,000 people across America, has concluded just the opposite. Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings. The study, the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings.
"The extent of the effect is shocking," says Scott Page, a University of Michigan political scientist."
As others have pointed out, techbros were laying off 100s of thousands of American workers even as they claimed they couldn't find American workers and had to import pajeets.
I did see the 'if'. I hope my reply did not appear more argumentative than I intended. I simply meant to settle that 'if' in the direction of reality.
I had a discussion with another substacker on this topic. He apparently is involved in tech hiring. His view was that tech workers should work full time (and often far more) and at the same time be constantly spending their own time picking up new skills that a prospective employer **might** need, so they'd be hireable for the next job. As opposed to his company providing a little training so that folks who have already proved they can learn programming are up to date with the specifics of what his company needs.
Basically, he wants everyone to spend their time and treasure to speculatively train in hopes that they might hit on the magic combination of skills that will get them hired. If folks like that don't materialize at his door, there is a shortage. Meanwhile, he will dispose of employees as his needs change, rather than moving them on to the next position.
It is possible to idealize earlier waves of immigration too much. The Irish, Jews, Chinese and Italians were certainly discriminated against and tended to live in their own ghettos. The Scandinavians not so much because they tend to move to sparsely populated in the Upper Midwest. The Germans were already here in substantial numbers even in colonial times so new immigrants had a similar community to ease assimilation. The speed and manner of assimilation varied. The Irish tended to assimilate via public employment in the military, police, urban political machines but maintained strong ties with the old country to the point of supporting Irish struggles against England. Even in my time there were IRA bars what would financially support (cough, cough) Noraid. The Italians and Jews had their own ghettos in East Coast urban areas. They also had organized crime. How the Jews got lumped into the Mafia is probably worth a book but they did. Again, discrimination persisted into my times and then in the case of the Jews came roaring back in the last couple of years. Not so much connection to the old country in these cases. Chinese, of the frontier days, were widely dispersed across the West mainly in mining and railroad building. The city of John Day, OR (current population about 1700) once boasted the largest US population of Chinese outside San Francisco and the first Asian car dealer in the country. They are all gone now. Other places like Tombstone and Pendleton had substantial Chinese populations too. For some reason, they seemed to retreat to the urban areas later. But until recently, they were concentrated in Chinatowns. Varying degrees of intermarriage with existing populations though it is not clear whether the intermarriage or the lessening of discrimination came first but more begat more. Seeing that with Hispanics today.
Jews and Chinese were very into education as a way to assimilate. Irish and Italians not so much.
One key difference that earlier waves were discriminated against while the current wave is discriminated for.
another key difference is that all previous groups weren't immediately offered government welfare programs. None of the those Irish immigrants were put up in $300/night NYC hotels.
Another facet of this 'newer' immigration is that in the first couple of decades in the 20th century, parents & those from the old country WANTED and ENCOURAGED their children to learn how to speak English properly in order to 'BE an American'. That was the whole reason they came here.
More recent immigrants resist that path forward. They proudly - sometimes loudly, sometimes obnoxiously - insist that it's not enough to continue their traditional ways but that we Americans MUST engage in their culture & language to the detriment of our own.
They don't want to 'BE an American' - they want Americans to embrace THEIR ways.
The culture & language will evolve on its own, naturally, and in its own time, thereby creating the melting pot.
True but the fault is the Establishment in the modern era vs the Establishment in the earlier years.
Totally agree.
The German farming community in Central Texas is an excellent example. Up until WWII they were still speaking German, still had their own schools, taught in German, and churches preached in German.
An old lady told my Grandfather that he and my Father were going to Hell for speaking English to each other.
Then WWII came along and suddenly it was extremely unfashionable to speak German. Everything quickly switched over to English -- although my grandparents still said grace at teh dinner table in German.
That book about Jews getting mixed up with the Mafia would be a very short read that even a kindergartener would understand.
It would be a title and nothing more:
M-O-N-E-Y.
As a boomer and a second-generation American I didn’t see many Jews getting involved with the Mafia. Sure, some did but the vast majority went on to successful white-collar and other careers largely through success in education. In fact, many Italian Americans I knew were extremely resentful of the Jews who they saw as an equivalent immigrant group but one who became “more successful” in WASP America than themselves. But the point is that everybody learned English, got educated to the best standard they could and considered themselves Americans.
Boomers can't be trusted.
Very important. Language in particular. Without a shared language it is impossible to share time-experience with others.
Here's America's melting pot formula:
Imitation-->Assimilation-->Innovation.
It's what makes us exceptional.
Time to look forward by looking back to our roots.
Nicely and succinctly put, Ryan.
Very good summary.
It is important we outlaw anchor babies. I think we should also consider stripping citizenship from naturalized citizens when they commit serious crimes or willfully and repeatedly violate their oaths as the Soros family has.
nationality should be determined by the parents, not where the child is born! French parents have baby born in USA is French, not American!
This is "nice" but I have a friend who was born and lived in Switzerland 64 years and he is "Italian". Also doesn't sound very fair or at least then don't pay any tax...
As a naturalized AMERICAN citizen in the early 1960s, George Soros SWORE to "uphold the United States Constitution." In reality, Soros has IGNORED his oath and funded every Communist front group within the USA - with ONE goal in mind: The complete destruction of OUR Republic and flip it into a SOCIALIST Democracy.
Hopefully our New Attorney General - Pam Bondi - will at some point strip that asshole of his US citizenship and DEPORT that despicable bastard to N. Korea.
Just going back to the old system will help. Family goes back home, kid determines citizenship at 21.
An important description of different types of assimilation in the US context that I hadn't considered before. Woke assimilation captures AWFLS and unfortunately second-third generation Americans who take their privileges and their grandparents/parents struggles for granted. The Woke have distorted the English language to create their own cultural/cultish lexicon to facilitate indoctrination and assimilation. I wonder what will happen to the rate of Woke assimilation/de-assimilation after Trump's inauguration.
I hope Learner Tien isn’t woke, rooting for him big time.
A pretty wild, true assimilation story from a family I know. The children grew up into adulthood, one of the grown children was reading a popular book about WW2, I don’t remember if it was Schindler’s List or some similar bestseller, and a picture of one of the saved people looked familiar… and that’s how this man learned, as an adult, that his father was a Jewish refugee. The kids hadn’t even known they were Jewish! That’s taking assimilation a little too far…
One thing I wish were more widespread, even among assimilated immigrants like me: gratitude to the point of keeping our mouths shut about immigration etc. like, be so so grateful you’re here, understand it’s a gift and a privilege, now STFU about the immigration debate and let the Americans who’ve been here for generations debate about it… just my two cents
Learner and Alex Michelsen are making American tennis great again!
Tien beating Medvedev at his own game was something to behold. I'm very excited about this young American prospect. Great composure and tennis smarts!
I know. I was pumped watching it.
Make Tennis Great Again!
You have a lot to add from experience. Keeping mouths shut was a measure of shame for immigrants trying so hard to melt into the pot that they obliterated their own history. That doesn’t help future generations figure out their own story.
We see the assimilation problem on a smaller scale, when people leave California for red states, then vote blue
Trump built the wall in the wrong place. It needs to be on the eastern border of Californistan. As a Texan, I would prefer more Mexicanos to more Californians. ^_^
Maybe all the way up to Canada ...
🙌
They shouldn't even be allowed to vote.
I like this: the "resistance"-industrial complex. Appropriate term for the multi-billion-dollar DEI, ESG, BLM, Sanctuary, etc. grift.
If they don’t like American culture, then they should return to their original countries. Absolutely !
Came to the US 20 years ago, became a citizen, and knew English before I came. To my surprise there are German, Italian, and lots of South-American pockets, where no English is spoken at all. There is a large pocket of Italians in Belgium that refuse to integrate. I think it might be better for those to get back 'home' because they do not belong in the country. It should not be allowed to make ghettos of a certain ethnicity, only Native Americans can do that as they were the original inhabitants, and I would encourage them, to learn their native languages again and re-enter their own culture.
For all the rest of the immigrants, I think it should be required to speak English that other English speakers can understand ! (after 20 years I still have an accent, so be it, but everyone understands me).
Perhaps a 100 year immigration moratorium combined with mass deportations will help
fuzzy little foreigners assimilate into their own countries.
The whole notion of a 'hyphenated' citizen has destroyed the original meaning of being a citizen or a member of a tribe. It is why I tend to call myself more a Quebecois these days on account of the fact that I'm more French than anything else and to most a Canadian is an Anglo-Saxon of Canada (an honourable and magnificent thing to be). But I"m somehow different.
That said, in America it should be American and that is all. By brining in all this other baggage they have effectively destroyed what it means now to be a citizen.
Language is power, and language binds a tribe together by warping it the tribe/clan has been warped. This is why the people need to regain control of their language, just as they must in France, in Germany, Japan and so on. The globalists have completely subverted it in recent years.
Got to take the profit motive out of being woke. Affimative action and anti discrimination law should be limited to the descendants of those conquered or forcibly brought here.
Those who came here voluntarily despite the racism of the time knew what they were getting into and came anyway because it was a better deal than what they had at home.
eliminating all affirmative action based on race and gender is the only reasonable course of action at this point.
But is it politically feasible?
My proposal gives certain voters reason to be MAGA.
maybe low income can still receive some help. Let's have equality under the law as per the Constitution and see if that's popular.
Some gentle antitrust measures and making it easier to go into business for yourself would accomplish what affirmative action is supposed to accomplish. Every workplace is hostile to somebody.
I will be writing on these things when I get to Rule 13.
big government loves oligarchies and does everything it can do to crush their smaller competitors via regulations and red tape.
Only legit resistance movement in the US of A now is MAGA, we need them weirdos to get in line and assimilate
Well, for historical/constitutional reasons, New Mexico has Spanish-language ballots. But otherwise, make them English only.
There is no assimilating non European immigrants, cultures are just too different.
Best for everyone they be removed.
As for the "melting pot" you throw enough into it, it ceases to become America, it becomes something completely different.
The first criterion for citizenship: do you hold these truths to be self-evident?
If there is a 'need' for immigration, that is showing a structural weakness that needs to be addressed. Immigration is treating the symptom, not the disease. If we need more tech workers, it is because we need more tech education. Allowing immigration to treat that symptom masks the real problem, allowing it to get worse.
There is also the fact that racial differences are inherently a negative in a nation, as people unconsciously associate them with the 'other' and social trust levels fall.
"Levels of social trust, averaged across a country, predict national economic growth as powerfully as financial and physical capital, and more powerfully than skill levels – over which every government in the world worries about incessantly. It is also associated with many other non-economic outcomes, such as life satisfaction (positively) and suicide (negatively). In short, it’s not much fun living in a place where you don’t think most other people can be trusted. Low trust implies a society where you have to keep an eye over your shoulder; where deals need lawyers instead of hand-shakes; where you don’t see the point of paying your tax or recycling your rubbish (since you doubt your neighbour will do so); and where you employ your cousin or your brother-in-law to work for you rather than a stranger who would probably be much better at the job."
https://www.bi.team/blogs/social-trust-is-one-of-the-most-important-measures-that-most-people-have-never-heard-of-and-its-moving/
"But a massive new study, based on detailed interviews of nearly 30,000 people across America, has concluded just the opposite. Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings. The study, the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings.
"The extent of the effect is shocking," says Scott Page, a University of Michigan political scientist."
https://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/
https://americandigest.org/diversity-proximity-war-the-reference-list/
There is no shortage of tech workers in the USA and never has been.
There is the appearance of a shortage because of the delusional and abusive hiring practices of tech companies.
Hence the first word of my post, "if."
As others have pointed out, techbros were laying off 100s of thousands of American workers even as they claimed they couldn't find American workers and had to import pajeets.
I did see the 'if'. I hope my reply did not appear more argumentative than I intended. I simply meant to settle that 'if' in the direction of reality.
I had a discussion with another substacker on this topic. He apparently is involved in tech hiring. His view was that tech workers should work full time (and often far more) and at the same time be constantly spending their own time picking up new skills that a prospective employer **might** need, so they'd be hireable for the next job. As opposed to his company providing a little training so that folks who have already proved they can learn programming are up to date with the specifics of what his company needs.
Basically, he wants everyone to spend their time and treasure to speculatively train in hopes that they might hit on the magic combination of skills that will get them hired. If folks like that don't materialize at his door, there is a shortage. Meanwhile, he will dispose of employees as his needs change, rather than moving them on to the next position.
Yuri hangs around Jews like Rachel Haywire, so I'm sure that he's in favor of the Infinity Pajeets Forever in some capacity.